[Archive] ISC Podcast Ep. 14 (Interview) James 'Human Furnace' Bulloch, Vocalist of RINGWORM Talks New Album, Touring, Creative Process

(Archival Post - originally posted to our now-defunct (RIP) prior website on August 4th, 2023).

On the rarest of occasions, there comes along a band that latches on and annihilates your ears with such a unique combination of sounds, you find yourself dislodged from the monotony of every-day music, and rooted firmly in the terrain of admiration. Cleveland Ohio’s Ringworm are no strangers to this concept and have been fascinating metalheads with their unorthodox melodies for over 30 years.

Now recently signed to Nuclear Blast Records, the guys are preparing to unleash their 9th studio album: SEEING THROUGH FIRE.

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Interview Transcript:

ISC: 'Welcome to the podcast, innerstrengthcheck.com. I'm here with the mighty James Bullock, aka 'Human Furnace' of veteran metallic-hardcore/metalcore/insert-genre-here veterans Ringworm. James, how are you going?'

James: 'I'm doing well. How are you?'

ISC: 'Yeah, I'm fantastic. Thanks. How's things going over in the Ringworm camp at present? You've got some big things lined up.'

James: 'Pretty lively! We've got a lot of things come up, obviously, the record comes out on the 18th. Got a couple of shows that we're doing here before. Kind of like a couple of warm up shows, I guess you could say now, you know, they're good shows on their own. And then we go on tour with Venom Inc. and Satan for about three weeks. And so, we're pretty busy.'

ISC: 'Excellent. So lots happening at the moment. So you've got a tour coming up with Venom Inc, and Seeing Through Fire is coming out soon, which is your ninth full length?'

James: Yeah.

ISC: 'How does it feel, coming into 2023? The latter half, with all those things lined up?'

James: Well, you know, it's, it's nice. I mean, obviously, the older you get, the harder things get, because you've got adult responsibilities, I guess, you know, that too, that you got to attend to. I mean, we don't do this as a way to make earn a living, really.'

'So it's become the, the ultimate of hobbies, I guess you could say, You know what I mean?'

'It's, yeah, it's our life. We're lifers with this, we've never quit, and we love doing it. So when you put out records, you gotta go out there and play. And we're ready to do that. So it feels good that we're here this long, we're still putting out material that we still love. And people still love it. People still, they still like it, you know what I mean?'

ISC: 'That's fantastic. And I guess on that note, too, there's a couple of things there. which would be interesting to draw from.'

'Firstly, the fact that you guys are, I mean, the quality, calibre and consistency, from which you have been performing and playing and touring. And you're saying, like, it's a hobby, so So I need to still what's what's helped you guys keep that longevity?'

James: 'I think a lot of that is there's not a lot of pressure, in a sense. It's not our career, it's not our jobs. It's not how we pay our bills and earn our livings, there's that pressure of having to do that.

'Without that there, it gives, it frees you up a little bit, you don't feel like we don't have to put out records, you know what I mean? We all certainly go about our go about our business and earn a living and be, you know, be fine. So we don't feel the need to do type of stuff.'

'Now, with that being said, we still love what we do. And we want to do it as often as we can. So yeah, I mean, that kind of just frees you, because you don't want a lot of bands, when you have to earn a living doing it, you often have that pressure of trying to mould yourself to what the current climate is sometimes, if you want to keep keep in the good graces of you know, your, your loving audience, you know, or the hot new thing, and that's okay.'

'I mean, some bands can do that naturally and progress and still, you know, still do it and be fine with it. We were one of those bands that've always been us and we're not really ashamed of it. We've been like a one-tick-pony, type of band.'

'And I say that in the best possible way, because there's bands that are like... you know what you're going to expect when you when you pick up one of our records, if you're familiar with this. I use bands like, you know, Motorhead or AC/DC or Bolt Thrower or Napalm Death. You know, what you're going to get with those bands and that's okay. We all have our influences of other music. But we keep Ringworm like this pure, pretty little flower of ours.

'So, yeah, plus, we all like each other. We don't hate each other. And then that's when you're gonna live with each other in a van for months at a time or weeks. Absolutely. Yeah.'

'And we still modernise; we still have fun. This is, for me - it's fun, but since we started, this has been a little personal therapy. Right? You know, it's so... I can't see a day when I don't have that luxury of being able to grab a microphone and just scream my fuckin' nuts off.'

ISC: 'And scream, you do! You scream your fucking nuts off. You do. I mean, people are giving you the the Human Furnace moniker.'

'I've been a fan of the band for quite a long time. Going back to what you were saying before about trends - I think it's interesting, because you guys have plotted along in the scene, although at times, you know, people will get (especially metalheads) pretty much the worst for 'No, it's this genre! No, it's that thing!'.'

'I remember coming into metalcore, metallic hardcore, crossover and all those sorts of things probably late 90s, early 2000s, in my teens. and something I noticed about you guys was, yeah, it is like a comfort food. There's a bit of consistency there. We know what we're going to pick up, we know what we're going to expect. But I noticed with even 'No Solace, No Quarter, No Mercy' and 'Thought Crimes', I'm hearing some new influences in there. I mean, for instance, 'Thought Crimes' had almost sort of a grind influence.

John: 'You know, since we started this band, like from the get go, we've always been, 'how does it fit?', kind of being a hybrid band from the get go. I mean, from our first demo, to this to this album, you know, we were thrash, we started out as heavy metal kids.'

'And then we got skate rock and punk rock. And then we got into hardcore. And so our influences are there. So, when we started this band, we always seem to incorporate it - grindcore, or punk rock or thrash parts, and then there was hardcore.'

So in our time, if you look at our records, all that DNA is in every one of our records. But some records have a little bit more percentage of metal, some have a little bit more percentage of this and that on it, but they're all there.

'' So, you know, at any given time, especially in the earlier days there wasn't so many sub-genres, you know? there was no, there wasn't a 'file' for us, like, neatly in a category. So, in a way, that was great, because we're a crossover band, but at the same time, when, say, if there was your stereotypical hardcore fan heard that Ringworm, you know, like, "There's this band Ringworm in the back", "Well, I heard they're a metal band, so I'm not into that. I'm into hardcore", and then there'd be a metal kid, you know, same thing.

'So it's often-times you were 'too hardcore' for metal heads, and 'too metal for hardcore kids.'

ISC: 'Right.'

James: So, you know, we just kind of stayed that course. Yeah. And so often the bell-curve will catch up to us, and people will appreciate that. And so we've always kind of written that, you know, that grey area, our whole deal.

'I mean, sometimes you get overlooked, or certain fans of a certain genre will not give you the time of day, you know, which is true, and that's okay. I mean, when someone says we're a hardcore band, like I said, there's probably some crusty metalhead that's like "I'm not into that... hardcore," you know what I mean?'

But without hearing us, he probably hears something like, "Oh, this isn't hardcore. This sounds like Discharge, this sounds like, you know, this or that. So, sometimes that works to our detriment, but... who cares? You know?

ISC: 'Yeah.'

James: 'It's there for people to find.'

ISC: 'I think a lot of longtime fans certainly don't mind. And I think the fact that you guys have chugged along for as long as you have, and produced as many quality albums as you have, is proof that's, you know, potentially not something to worry about.'

James: 'Like I said, we don't worry about it, but it gets you noticed, you know? And that comes with, like, you know, at a certain point in music, or heavy music, everyone felt a need to find a genre for something like "there's this core", that there's, you know, "metalcore, hardcore, this core, that core", you know what I mean?'

'And, "this type of metal, that type of metal". So, it's like... there's so many genres right now. It's like if someone asked me what we are, I just say "we're a heavy metal band". I'm like, you know, I don't I don't say this, that or the other.'

ISC: 'Yeah, exactly. And so with the new album, you've even got Daniel from Voivod, who did a guitar solo on 'Death Hook. So there's even a pretty direct thrash element in there.'

James: 'That was awesome. We had the privilege of doing a couple of two week tours with them, years ago. And most people in my band, we all kind of grew up listening to Voivod.'

'They're one of my all-time favourites. I followed their career from the start to even right now. I mean, they're one of those bands that can morph and change their style because they do so effortlessly and genuinely, and it's okay for them. You know what I mean?'

'And they're more than capable of doing that. Yeah, so when we got a chance to tour them, I was like, I felt like a 15 year old kid every night... was just fucking awesome.'

'So through that, we became pretty good friends with them. And we kept in touch. And since that tour, we did a couple more shows with them. And we get along really well. And when we were making this new record, I thought, "You know what? Maybe we'll bring in a guest. We don't usually do that. But we will. And so I came up with Mike, "What about Dan from Voivod?" and me and Matt were like, "Yeah, that would be great". And we got a hold of them.'

'And like, we go "Dan, would you be interested in playing a little solo on this?" And he's like, "Sure". And then from that point, we didn't know what he was going to do. Because Dan, he's more familiar with Voivod. I mean, he's from outer space, you know? Like, his solos are so unique.'

ISC: 'Absolutely.'

James: They're so crazy. So we didn't know what he was going to come up with. And we didn't tell him to do anything. We just said, "This is the part, we'd like you to see if you play something on that". So when he came back with what he delivered, it was, it was so... unique. It's so weird. We're like, "This is incredible." Because contrasting with Matt, his solo goes into Dan's solo, and it's just such a unique thing. And honestly, I kind of took it when he came back with that solo. I didn't have any words for that song yet.'

'So I took and you probably, if I sat down with someone, I could go into a deep, deep, lyrical, deep-dive. But I fashioned my lyrics off of his some of the hooks, and the timing of his solo.'

ISC: 'Right. Do you feel the particular sort of melodies and time signatures influenced the theme, the musical theme?'

James: Well, sometimes. It's maybe not the solos, but definitely the riffs. Yeah, they kind of dictate to me just the overall feel, the temperature of the song.'

ISC: Yeah.

James: Yeah. When Dan came back with his, it was "So you need to how we what we usually sound like". It's a really odd solo, but it's not in a bad way. So I'm like, I want to take some of the weird timing in his solo and try to see if I could fashion some lyrics, timing wise, that match to his solo.'

'So, by the time we get to the solo, it doesn't sound out of place with the rest of the song it's in. The lyrics are weird timing. And so is that solo? So they all kind of meet at an, I don't know, it's a military type thing. You know?'

ISC: 'Just on that sort of tangent - it's interesting, because obviously, as the vocalist, you've mentioned before about the band being a much loved hobby of yours and a passion project. And you mentioned that had a therapeutic aspect to it. So I'm guessing it's pretty cathartic for you?'

And you seem just as influenced by the riff. So the riff sort of determines it? They're sort of giving you a bit of a guiding direction, but there seems to be an even an underlying kind of mental health or catharsis element to songwriting with your lyrics?'

James: 'Well, 100%. I mean, yeah, when I first got started in the band, I'd never been really in a band before this, you know, where I had to write lyrics and stuff.'

'I did mess around with another band pre-Ringworm with Frank, our original guitar player. And those were words that were written for me because they had another singer. And when it didn't work out, he's like, "Hey, man, do you want to sing?" and I'm like "Sure, I'll try it". And he's like, "Here's the worda," and then quickly we realised that band wasn't what we wanted to do.

'And from that point on I was the vocalist, I was the one that's had to write the words. And when you're 18, 17-18, what do you want to sing about? You know what I mean? I thought that the best way, the most authentic way to sing, or what to sing about was the way I felt about things that I saw, or the way I felt about things that happened to me in my life and put an artistic twist on it, you know, to make it more listenable? Stuff like that.'

'But I never really sang about this... you know, you hear a lot of bands singing about like, how tough they are? And for a lot of bands, sure they, you know, I know a lot of bands that grew up fucking living in a hard fucking lifestyle, and that's what they sing about. I appreciate that.'

'But there's also a lot of bands that kind of just do that, you know, they sing about this type of stuff and like, I know you you're not, you're not this is not, you know, I mean, this is like.....'

ISC: 'A bit of a show?'

James: 'That never felt right to me. And I never felt the need to sing lyrics about like, you know, "we should all be unified, and let's get together. We're all in this together". Because, granted, that's a pleasant thought. And I don't not want people to get along with each other.

But, you know, that's not how I'm feeling about things. So I just always sang about that. And it's extremely cathartic. And I don't know, I would have a hard time not doing it, you know, that release available to me.'

ISC: Speaking of that release, that need for catharsis - I noticed that Snake Church had a very almost kind of occultic lyrical vibe to it, whereas Seeing Through Fire, in the brief listen I've had for it, you've got things like 'Death Hoax'. Is the current climate of the question-marked, post-pandemic "what are we?" world... is that an influence? Is there anything that's going on at the moment that's been a major influence on you?'

James: 'If you go back to I guess, lyrical content or lyrical topics, you could say, all the topics are primarily the same. I mean, when when people write lyrics, what do you sing about?'

You sing about your life you sing about? Love the saying that, "Hey, you sing about death". I mean, all the topics are the same. As you get older, you're singing about the same things, but your perspective's altered from the time you're 18 till now.'

'Now, I'm 51. So I'm singing about the same things but oftentimes, my perspective has changed. And one of the topics is how I view the world and what I see going on around me. And, you know - the more things change, the more they stay the same.'

'And right now things things are different than they were, you know, that's natural. So definitely, the current climate of everything is involved in being baked into this cake, lyrically.'

'It's a weird world out there. And that's kind of the title it gets. The world's on fire. Seems like, if you have to give an analogy it seems like the world is on fire. So you've got to be able to focus, I guess, and kind of get through that, if you want to get to the other side.'

ISC: 'Yeah, you've got to get to the other side of that wall of flames - which, by the way, fantastic artwork on the new album!

James: 'It very much gives you that idea that the world's on fire, I think it adds a almost a little bit of extra throwback to that occultic idea. It's like a welcome to hell, it's like you've got to pass through the gates through molten fire.'

'With this one, I've done pretty much almost all of our album covers - the last three that I did were really fine, detailed, almost elegant illustrations, I guess you can say. And each one of those took hundreds of hours to do, each one. I mean, extreme detail. It's almost maddening when I get into that world of trying to create those, because it does take a long time. very taxing.'

ISC: 'Yeah, lots of detail on there, and fantastic detail. It's incredible'

James: Thank you. But it's consuming and it's very hard to do those. So this record, we kind of felt that there was somewhat of a new beginning with thi,s because those three records which were with Relapse we wanted a fresh look, we got a fresher sound, a different sound. And with this album cover, I think, whereas the other ones look nice, and I love them all.... butif you looked at that record, if you didn't know the band, you would have no idea what the band sounds like. Yeah, but by looking at the album cover on this one, I kind of made it pretty obvious. The cover looks like the album sounds, inside.'

ISC: 'Absolutely, yeah. I totally agree. '

James: 'I've always been a big fan of like, you know, early 90s, late 80s, early 90s death metal art, which is quite popular again these days with that genre.'

ISC: 'It's come full circle. That real Dan Seagrave style.'

James: Yeah, exactly. And you know, I've always been a fan of that. I've done lots of album covers, and that's something I've always wanted to do.'

'I'm like "You know what? I think I can do that", you know, something in that vein, and I I'm like "Yeah, I'm gonna do something like this. And that's what I came up with. You know, I was definitely influenced by that.'

'And, honestly, there's nothing groundbreaking about putting a skull on the front of your house, you know?'

ISC: 'Yeah.'

James: 'And that's okay with me. But it reflects what the album sounds like, you know, there's lots of lots of personal nuances in the art, they kind of correspond to the record. And, you know, it does have a meaning. It's not just a picture that we threw on the front, you know, it's fun, logically, with the record itself.'

ISC: 'It sounds very... the general attitude I'm getting from yourself, and I'm wondering if this is the general attitude of the band - that even though it is considered sort of a side thing, and not your main income, there is a work ethic, there's kind of a workmanship, and almost like an artisanal quality to the way you're talking about the band. There's a lot of talk around the craft, it's not really laid in much pretence, or that sort of thing. Does that translate to the live front?'

James: 'Very much.'

'I mean, we take the band very seriously, you know, and although sometimes, like - you could say our band is very meat and potatoes, it's just five guys, no fancy production. No obviously, my vocal toolbox has like three hammers in it, that's it. In just three different sizes. That's it, that's what you're gonna get. '

'But with that being said, I take it very seriously. And I put a lot of work into a range I have I make it work. So we all take it really very seriously. So from an outward view, you could be like "Oh, it's just kind of thrashy metal", but we take it very seriously. We put a lot of work into it.'

'Well, we just kind of do it as a hobby, but we take it very seriously.'

ISC: 'Yeah.'

James: 'That's why we've been able to... our records have stayed so consistent, as we take it seriously and we want them to be proud of everything we put out. So yeah, just like any other band, when you get up to this many records, you know, it gets difficult because you start comparing yourself to yourself sometimes.'

'And lyrically, it gets difficult for me, because from an outsider's view - if you just take the tempos and every record, the tempos are the same, because it's a metal record. So you're gonna have those tempos.'

ISC: 'Yeah.'

James: So as a lyricist, I have to find new creative ways to sing over the same tempos. At the same time, say the stuff that I want to say, so that makes it that makes craft for me.

'It's like a puzzle that you have to figure out, and a lot of times, you're singing a song, you're like, "why is this coming so easily to me?" You realise, "oh, that's what I said to you two records ago, I said, the same type of pattern", you know what I mean? So you have to find ways to do stuff. It makes it interesting, makes it fun, makes it challenging. And we, like I said, we treat it pretty seriously'.

ISC: 'And that definitely shows. That shows 100% through the music. I think people would probably actually be surprised to hear that, you know, because of how much basically how much authenticity goes into it. How much I think you can hear that with the intricacy of the riffs, of the music in general. Like, yeah, we say metal and hardcore. But there's this one thing that I've always really appreciated about the band is that there is this underlying technical instrumental intricacy, you know, above your vocals, you can you can feel the passion in it.'

'But you can also feel musically there's this sense of a mix of that passion through the musical delivery, but also some care with some pretty intricate riffs. And I've noticed I noticed that on the new album, and as well, it's almost it's sounding like things are kind of getting more and more technical while keeping that still keeping that hardcore base.'

James: 'That's all Matt. That's Matt. Like it's nice, cause he's a riff-machine beast.'

'Not only does he do Ringworm, he writes records for two other bands that he's currently writing records for, and they're all different. He's in a band called Shed The Skin, which is a 90s death metal band, which is very good. They're on their third or fourth record.'

'And that he does another band called Rip Ride, which is kind of like a throwback to like 80s style hard rock, and that's very good. They're on their second record. And I can almost guarantee that he has new Ringworm songs that I haven't heard yet.'

James: So from that point, this goes to what we're talking about here. So he crafts the riffs there. And then, I think the next layer, I mean, obviously, you have the drums, and the drums are great on this on this new record.

ISC: 'They're phenomenal. Yeah, fantastic.'

James: 'Yeah.'

'And I think the real one of the big icings on the cake is our bass player. Ed's bass playing. It's totally insane, like, you know, live it, when you see it live, and you get to watch him play.'

'You're like, "holy shit, dude". Like, he's not just playing along with the riff, he's playing a completely different thing of his own. And it just, it takes a normal song, that's just riff and then like, he adds a whole different element to it.'

ISC: 'Yeah.'

James: And then as I do my vocals last, I wait till everything's recorded. So sometimes when I listened to the song, if there's a snare hit or a certain accent on a crash cymbal, I will tailor my lyrics for that crash cymbal, not just the riff. I'll sync to that crash cymbal or the bass. Or if there's a bassline that he's doing, I'll stop singing to the guitar riff and I'll start singing to the bass riff.'

'But then when you're done, you're getting what you're talking about. You're getting like a regular song, but there's a lot of stuff that goes into it. That makes it a little bit special. It's, it's a song, there's riffs and stuff, but like, there's a lot of intricacy that goes on. And then of course, Matt's solos in there. And, you know, we go from there.'

ISC: 'And I think listeners will hear that. I've been lucky, and gotten a bit of a sneak peek-preview. I've already flogged it like three times since I got it yesterday. So if that's anything to go for... in terms of touring, is there any plans for Australia? I know we're an expensive place to visit now.'

James: 'Now that you bring that up? There you there's a very good chance that you may see us before the end of the year.'

'Nothing is cast in stone, but we're working on it. We're right. I mean, it's amazing that there's some huge bands that through their career have never been down to Australia; blows my mind. And then, what blows my mind on top of that, is that here we are, we've managed to be down there three times. So we're definitely we're working on the fourth time.'

'So if all the things line up, because these days everything is way more expensive and it ain't easy to get down there in the first place. It's a production, you know what I mean? And it's fun, for bands it's maybe a little bit easier because you have to make sure the passion's there.'

'Obviously there's people down there that like us and they want to bring us down. You know, everybody involved in a whole tour like something like this have to be willing to lose money. That includes us and everybody just needs to be be okay with you know, saying "Hey, we're just doing this because we love it".

It's like "We want to bring it down, we want to come down" but you know what, we're not going to work, I'm probably gonna lose money. But when you get down there and you play the shows, everybody fucking loves it and we have a fucking blast. We've made some lifelong friends down there that we still see to this day, when they come to the States or so if we can make this happen. You may see a sooner than later'.

Album Singles 'No Solace, No Quarter and No Mercy', and 'Thought Crimes':