[Archive] ISC Podcast Ep. 31: Luna's Cult of Dark Souls - A DM Interview With... A DM.
Originally posted to our prior now-defunct website (RIP) on Sept 24th, 2024. My first interview focussed on exploring someone else's expertise and thoughts around a franchise/hobby/series and the community surrounding it, and my first interview with a community member around the design of their own RPG!
Read on, or if you prefer I’ve since also narrated the full interview as part of an ISC podcast episode! Links below.
Thanks,
Brady.
I've interviewed a number of folks via audio and video in the past for this podcast and other publications. All named and usually reasonably if not well-known by formal name.
Well, in the spirit of being a podcast/blog about championing the plethora of benefits online communities and their connections bring - today's topic host, Luna, has provided us a sweet run-down of Dark Souls lore and even her tabletop RPG rendition!
I have high praise for her adaptation of the Dark Souls game series to tabletop, a home-brewed effort you can check out via a link later in the piece.
I/we would love feedback from yourselves on how it plays!
Today, we cover Dark Souls and Luna's journey through a lore that is inconspicuously deeper than I'd imagined until actually looking into it. Deliberately vague and metaphysical at times, it's like a grimdark Lost except instead of being lost, you're usually dead. Or gitting gud.
My thanks in advance to Luna for being the first ever to be interviewed by this podcast purely in an auspice of just straight talking about hobbies, interests and passions on their chosen subject. I'd like to do more of this, so please hit us up via comments here, email, socials etc!
Artworks will be credit to sources throughout. If I've misattributed any works, please feel free to get in touch.
Peace, Love and Grindcore, xoxo - Brady.
PODCAST AUDIO VERSIONS:
Note: ISC Podcast is also available on: Our Youtube Podcast Page, Amazon Music, Apple Podcasts, Castbox, GoodPods, iHeartRadio, PocketCasts and RadioPublic.
Luna's Cult of Dark Souls: A DM Interview - with A DM.
Part One: Dark Souls Lore For Unwitting Fools Like Me.
Brady: What was your first experience with the Souls series? What about it at the time appealled to you?
(Or: Did it NOT grab you initially, and given it evidently has since then... how and/or why did a change happen?)
Luna: 'I first tried dark souls 1 on the ps3, a good few years ago.'
'First year of… high school, 2019 I think.'
'I had heard a lot about it, knew a couple of people in middle school who played it, and got curious. So I picked Dark Souls 1 off my Dad's shelf and slipped it into the ps3, deciding to start with the big'un I'd heard so much about. I sat down on the uncomfortable old couch, and just… started playing.'
'I listened to that main menu music, a lingering dreamlike song that mingled the sounds of a harp with the echoes of water, and was instantly captivated by the atmosphere of the game. Starting out, I picked a knight class, because it seemed intuitive, and started swinging. Listening to the last old tale of my dying rescuer, I became invested in the prophecy of the Chosen Undead, and learned the name of the land I was to venture: Lordran.'
'I ended up failing to do that pretty badly, lol. I enjoyed myself, used a zweihander and the chuuuunkiest armor I could get, the stone set, and got brickwalled at the midgame boss fight, because I was moving so slowly with all of my heavy equipment.'
'Ornstein and Smough, the twin divine guardians of the empty city of the gods. They kicked my ass up and down the street so hard I ended up putting the game down. Too late though, I already had a taste for the game and waaaaaas hooked. Didn't matter that I lost, I still had too much fun to stop. So I bought a secondhand copy of Dark Souls 3. I kept going from there, and it just kept getting more interesting.'
Credit - Reddit user /u/Kusza (aka zuszalka), who has quite a number of fantastic artworks on their profile!
Brady: At what point did you extend beyond gameplay into the background/setting/lore? What specifically appealed to you about said lore, drawing you deeper into the series?
Luna: 'It's hard to say when I first got into the lore. I love reading, I love all the little mini stories you get in each item description, and I started reading them pretty much from the get-go when I found them, while figuring out the controls. I liked hearing the stories, liked learning… it felt like I was stitching myself into the world with every thing I learned. I started watching youtubers like VaatiVidya, a popular souls lore-keeper.'
Luna: 'I couldn't always win… but I could die. And die, and die, and die.'
'It took an endless flame to kill me; and the boss only had to die once. I started making characters, not just avatars. An exiled sorcerer who scoffed at the usage of crystals, a pyromancer descendant of the daughters of chaos, a huntress later enshrined as a deity for her prowess… it stopped being nameless, after a while. It started being the story I told.'
Brady: What's your experiences/interactions with the Souls fandom been like? Are you in/have you participated in any Souls fandom spaces?
Luna: 'The Fandom have been… one coin, two sides. There is pride, there is nurturing, there is arrogance, and there was a fair bit of gatekeeping. You didn't ever beat a boss if you used a summon or used a certain weapon even if you killed them, it never seemed to "count."''
Source: Reddit user /u/Youre_a_transistor on the /r/neckbeardRPG (lol) subreddit.
Luna: 'Personally, I call bullshit, as if it was unintended the developers wouldn't have added it in, but I digress.'
'There was always debate, always some sneering PNGtuber with a sarcastic voice… but there was always help, too. Always good people, explorers, roleplayers, always people having fun. Hells, if you look forward to Elden Ring, we even have a folk hero; Let Me Solo Her, who took down that game's hardest base game boss over three hundred times for random other players online.'
Video courtesy of evanf1997. Worth a look if you're intrigued by the online folk-heroism Luna mentioned above!
Luna: 'FromSoftware sent that guy a literal sword for his efforts, too. And that's another thing, the developers really liked listening. They gave rewards, they tweaked things constantly, they made sure people got ***everything*** they were promised. Even when they failed to deliver their ideal vision, like with Dark Souls 2, they kept at it with events like random item drops, which gave early ds2 players a set of unique recolored weapons like the whitesteel katana or the tani-murakumo.'
'They didn't need to do that, but they still did. For us.'
'Dark Souls as a Fandom is inherently a massive collaborative effort between creatives and consumers, those who make the grandest puzzles and those like us who delve them, death and all, for their secrets. We breathe life into the shell they make, and in turn they help it grow.'
From the above hyperlinked post - credit to Let Me Solo Her, aka Klein Tsuboi OW on Reddit.
Luna, cont'd: 'Gods, I remember Elden Ring on launch; that game was a mess. Two different questlines were unfinished, Radahn was WAY too hard, and there were still enemies in the game that they intended to patch out, like the rotten Ancestral Followers in the Grand Cloister.'
'But we explored, we discovered all the little things, and from soft worked their asses off to fix it. I beat radahn in those early days, you know. It was a triumph like no other, and one I haven't repeated since. It's been two years and they're still improving that game; they just added horse functionality to the final boss after endless fan requests.'
'There's no Fandom like Dark Souls, honestly. No Fandom as inquisitive, multifaceted, tireless… Our story has always been about working together to face insurmountable odds and grow from the failures. It kinda bleeds into how we roll.'
Brady: Outside of the worldbuilding, what appeals to you in playing the series' titles from a gamer perspective?
Luna: 'The Souls titles have always been masters of art and visual design, even at their least intriguing. Let's take the Pursuer from Dark Souls 2, what at first brush looks like a stereotypical knight-in-armor fight.'
'If you look close, you can actually see the faces of consumed souls bulging out and deforming the armor of his chest plate, he had a satchel of a dozen collected weapons over his back, and like the ghostly thing he is, he floats over the ground instead of walking. FromSoft have been trying to make a boss like the Pursuer, one that actively hounds you multiple times throughout the game, work for over a decade now.'
Pursuer Fan-Art. Credit: Reddit user /u/artbytal.
Luna, cont'd: 'The Fat Official in Demons' Souls, the Black Knights, the Pursuer, the Night's Cavalry… they keep reiterating the concept to try and get it right. That's kinda what draws me to the games, honestly. The same concepts present in demons souls are present in Elden Ring, but reiterated in new and inventive ways. The same archetypes, systems, story beats, even some locations… they all come back, one way or another, a couple of times.'
'It's a storytelling style that honest-to-god reminds me of La Comedia Del'Arte, a style of Italian theater that has the same character archetypes rearranged in new ways in different plays. The same names, costumes, and actors in new situations, wholly divorced of each other. The Maiden in White, the Bastard Liar, the Corrupted God and the Forgotten King.'
'Let's take, for instance, the Maiden in White. In Demon's Souls, she's represented by Maiden Astraea, one of the five great archdemon bosses and the most talkative of the lot. She's an inherently good character, doing an awful thing to help the suffering people around her find peace.'
Credit: DeviantArt user Joshttxx (deactivated), sourced via Tumblr user Delsinfire here.
Luna, cont'd: 'In Dark Souls one, she's replaced by Lady Rhea, a cleric delving into the Tomb of the Giants to find the forgotten Rite of Kindling, in order to bolster the holy flames of her homeland, Courland.'
'In dark souls two, she's a usurper, named Licia.'
'In dark souls three, an aspiring fire keeper, Irina.'
'Yet throughout, she's still the same archetype, the maiden in white. The holy cleric.'
'That kind of creativity and simplicity makes each game a breeze to get into, as I just have to shuffle the familiar around, whole also playing each archetype off of itself in a new way every time, enriching and complicating each individual character.'
'The far-easterner's obsession, the bastard's surprising iron morals, the forgotten king's strength and the high queen's malice. Each is explored, re-explored, and re-examined again and again in each new story. The same faces, different places, all unique. It's brilliant.'
The Nameless King. Credit: Reddit user /u/hyp3r-meme.
Brady: What elements of the lore or gameplay would you see added to the existing canon, in an ideal world?
Luna: 'In an ideal world, I'd love to explore each game as the story suggests the lands are sized. Each game you play kinda gives you the sense that you're working with a bit of a shrunken model of a much larger world, sometimes, where every nook and cranny is squeezed together a bit more to make it possible to explore and play in a reasonable time frame.'
'This isn't necessarily a bad thing, and Dark Souls 3 literally wrote it into the story in order to make it work, but I'd love to explore a lands between or a drangleic that are as big as their stories truly imply. There's so much more to see than we properly have access to, and I'm incredibly eager to see how FromSoft tackles their next project in their soulsy style.'
Brady: What is some of the most unique, obscure or otherwise interesting community/fan-made Souls content you've found?
Luna: 'As for community content, I'm gonna have to point you at the modding scene for each game, specifically the Convergence mod for Elden Ring, Nightfall for Dark Souls 1, and Cinders or especially Archthrones for Dark Souls 3.'
'Each mod vastly rearranges the game in a unique way, using the naturally modular design of Souls worlds to their advantage to create and tell a unique story with their work. Beyond that, animators and storytellers are the bread and butter of fan content, and I recommend trying a smorgasbord.'
Brady: What is some of the most unique, obscure or otherwise interesting official Souls content youve found?
Luna: 'For official non-game stuff, check out the art books for each game. They're a legendary source of ideas, inspirations, and unused concepts for foes. If you're looking for a laugh though… FromSoft maaaaaay have released an entire Elden Ring parody Manga called Road to the Erdtree that is fucking hilarious, an entire officially licensed and English translated parody that gets decently far in. Instant classic.'
'Other than that, Bloodborne actually got a comic book run from Titan Comics that is some of the coolest fucking eldritch horror out there, mingled with a lot of more in-depth character pieces that shed light on the workings of the diseased town of Yharnam. Also Eileen and Rom get high together on the eldritch truth at one point.'
Credit and Copyright: Titan Comics. The above was made available on Free Comic Book Day, 2022.
Brady: If you could merge Souls with another IP/setting, what would it be and why?
Luna: 'If I could blend Dark Souls with ANY other IP… I think I'd mix it with the DragonLance books, purely to watch the differentiation between the settings' dragons settle out. Tiamat versus Gwyn, fight of the last century. Both worlds are close enough approximates of archetypal fantasy Europe, swords and sorcery and dragons, which means they'd have juuuuust enough disconnect for culture shock, which always makes good reading.'
[Author's Note - looks like someone did a thing! The above is a poster for a DnD Dark Souls campaign, created by Reddit user /u/MelioraHenning. For a read of the campaign's structure, as well as original link to the poster, check out the original post here.]
Brady: Your favourite characters/environments/stages/insert-thing-here from the games?
Luna: 'My favorite recurring stage in FromSoft games is the Field of Archtrees. Essentially a void like space peppered with grand high columns of tree or stone stretching into an unseen sky. Also of note: Below the Nexus in Demons Souls, Ash Lake in ds1, The Hunter's Dream in Bloodborne, and the Elden Beast Arena.'
'The grand vastness of skyscraper trees and the endless flat plains evoke a feeling of timeless ancientness, of realms above and beyond the trials of humanity, of a place so much more significance than we can ever fully see.'
Fan-Art: Ash Lake, credited to Reddit user /u/PoruKima.
Part Deux: Luna's Dark Souls Tabletop RPG
Requisite impostor-syndrome comment from our friend Luna - something pretty much any RPG designer, game-master, dungeon-master or even player is more than familiar with:
Real feels Luna, real feels!
Brady: What was your initial inspiration to develop the Dark Souls lore we discussed prior into a TTRPG?
Luna: 'So in the US, a ttrpg for dark souls actually did release. It was shit. Multiple spells were broken and got worse as you got stronger, one of the starting classes flat out didn't have the stats for it's own armor, and overall it was a lazy rehashed 5e hack with a tiny amount of dark souls flavor, like a sprig of cilantro on top of a bowl of ice soup. This displeased me. Greatly.'
'So out of sheer fucking spite (and needing to channel my frustration over my parents’ divorce) I made the entirety of draft one over the summer. I intend the system to be open source and completely free, and have no desire to see the thing paywalled or whatever.'
'It's a rules-lite, Customization-heavy, d20 driven experience that works off of a square grid map.'
'Here's a link to a Google doc for the thing, go wild.'
[Author's Note - This is incredible! Fantastic attention to detail, and also free. I/we would love to hear any play reports, feedback etc. Get back to me via the comments, socials or our email. Thanks.]
Brady: Prior to your current work, have you made any attempts to either play and or reskin/homebrew DS into an existing TTRPG?
Luna: 'Before this, I never had really attempted to make a TTRPG. I'd made homebrew campaigns and similar, but never *actually* tried to work my own ruleset into existence. This is actually my first attempt! I hope it's well-received.'
Brady: Any plans for future modules, supplements, setting hacks or any other kinds of content?
Luna: 'As for modules - while I very much could write pre-made games into existence, I feel like half the fun is making shit up on the fly to play. The doc linked above is merely a core rulebook, with a lot of indexes for spells, armor, and the like. The point was always to go off and make your own thing. I could write more, but I think I'll save it for editing and “maybe if I get inspired” type work rushes.'
Credit: Reddit user /u/thepaintedring.
Brady: Give me an example of one of your funniest experiences as either a player and/or DM of a TTRPG (with relevant folks' consent of course!)
Luna: 'Funniest thing I ever did as a player/DM? Fuck dude, that's a long list. In the end it'd probably be the time in a homebrew campaign that I just slammed an alchemist into the mud, stole his cookbook, and used it to make booze that could age you 70 years in ten seconds and then age you back just as fast to make you even more drunk. Ashefire whiskey, what a time.'
[Author's Note - based?]
Brady: Finally - what are your general thoughts/observations/feelings on how TTRPG design as a hobby has been evolving of late? What would you like to see more of from the community in future?
Luna: 'I wish I could offer more, but I'm honestly not that experienced with ttrpg design or communities (work's badly scheduled, I haven't been able to play in months.) I'm earnestly proud of what I've made, and I hope in future… uh… less Funko Pops in game stores. There, that's a good one.'
And from my viewing of her Tabletop RPG rendition, she's done a class act in terms of adapting an entire damn video game series and setting into a free tabletop form!
Do yourself a favour - even if you're not a fan of the games, or even a gamer in general, go peep the lore. It may even spark some creative impetus of your own, as it did with Luna.
Thanks, Luna. :)